The Gaming Den

So I'm thinking of running a game set in Eberron, where the PCs are new members of the Sharn watch, and unlike most of it, are surprisingly uncorrupted. If you've read Discworld books, you know where I'm going with this. I'm also considering writing up new classes and new race-stats for it, as a test bed for a few ideas, as it's unlikely to last past december.So here's what I'm thinking:

Races: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Gnome, Halfling, Warforged, Shifter, Changeling, Goblin.

That should cover everything anyone would want to play. The Khalashtar are left out, as they are lame. Goblins are included, as they are awesome.

Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Arcana, Alchemy, Nature, Perception, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Insight, Bluff, Bureaucracy, Stealth, Medicine

I'm not sure what else I need. Streetwise? In any case, I'll also give players three "Background words" to choose from, such as "Blacksmith", "Animal Tamer", or whatnot, that they can help use in investigation. These will be provided by the players.

Classes... I really don't want to use base 3.5 classes. It should be obvious how much Clerics, Druids, Wizards, and so on are going to be that much more powerful when there are limited encounters a day and investigation plays a heavy role. As such, I'm thinking of writing up short, 5-10 level long classes, similar fire mage.

Champion - think a commander type. Roll in options for paladins and warlords

Bulwark - this one is a maybe. heavy shield type, big on shoving enemies around (trips, disarms, etc) and protecting allies. might get rolled into Champion.

Rogue - yup

Weapon Master - intended for characters who don't wear heavy armor, but still use weapons. mainly offensive and mobility based, with some defensive choices.

Stalker - the stealthy archer class. rangers, assassins, etc.

Elementalist - makes things go boom, in an elementaly fashion

Weaver - the illusionist/enchanter character. not sure if I actually want this in a detective game, but I might be able to do it by just not having outright mind control

Magister - abjuration and diviner type, but also breaks out forcebolts along with his mana shields

Druid - summons vines, makes friends with animals, and turns into a motherfuckin bear


Anything I'm missing, or should change?

Sounds neat. You could make 'Craft' as skill, although if you don't care about scaling it to level then professions/backgrounds would suffice.

Your rogue is probably going to be more of a thief acrobat or ninja, and duelist might be a more clear name for weapon master ('I want to be a heavily armored guy who is a weapon master of the great club').

You're missing a freakin' necromancer!

I'm confused. You want a new skill system, a new class system, a different set of races, and a different social background. What parts of "Eberron" are even left at that point?

I totally don't know what you are doing or where you are going with this.

-Username17

A dungeonpunk city full of magic skyscrapers and criminals to stab in the face that has several adventures and at least one sourcebook specifically for it?

Sharn has some interesting stuff, and I'd do an adventure in just for the opportunity to write an encounter where everyone leaps from the top of a tower in pursuit of an opposing group and has to fight in magically slowed freefall.

I realize I forgot Medicine on the skill list. Whoops.

You're missing a freakin' necromancer!

On purpose, ditto the priest. I don't think a necormancer would fit with the campaign theme, and I can't think of how to write an interesting priest.

I'm confused. You want a new skill system, a new class system, a different set of races, and a different social background. What parts of "Eberron" are even left at that point?

My "Sharn, City of Towers" book.

Seriously, that's the big reason. The Sharn book has a lot of good details, maps, and pictures and the Eberron setting has a lot of good setting elements I can use (Flamers vs Shifters/Lycans, Blood of Vol in general, corrupt guards, the goblins in Sharn, the citizenless people from Droaam, the five nations, Cyre refugees, etc). Changelings, Shifters, and Warforged are also great additions to a watch game. The Shifter can follow scents and is more 'feral', giving them a unique role, the Changeling can change freaking shape which is endless in possibilities, and the Warforged... well ,you read Penny Arcade, right?

While Sharn fits the theme well, the base 3.5 classes really do not work for this sort of thing, nor do I particularly want to play 4e again. So I'm wanting to make 3.5 classes, that are very simple, similiar to your fire mage. The main reason being they're easier to write, and I expect a couple of people who are new to D&D or RPGs in general joining.

In addition, I want to use it as a sort of test-bed for a few ideas that have been discussed on the Den. Namely, "Races just get three abilities", "Classes get multiple selectible options", etc.

As far as priests go, I thought that priests of warlike gods would be champions, priests of trickster gods would be weavers, priests of nature gods would be druids, priests of elemental gods would be elementalists, and priests of gods of knowledge/generic pantheons would be magicsters.

I could see your magicsters as fulfilling the necromancer role as well. Necromancy is, after all, a classic method of divination. A straight-up D&D speak with dead might be too good in a mystery adventure, but I'm sure you can figure something out.

So, uh....when's this running and might you have a player slot open?

So, uh....when's this running and might you have a player slot open?

Possibly sometime this fall, not sure when, and it's only a maybe so far And yes, I likely will. I'll let you know.



Alright, after some thought I've come to my senses and realized - new classes are too much fucking work. So I'm going to make a new skill list, set around typical investigation stuff, so players can focus on that, and try to pull together classes that will not totally wreck the game, and stay balanced. So I'm thinking...

Core Rogue
Core Bard?
Tome Assassin: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin ... e_Class%29
Tome Jester: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Jester_%283.5e_Class%29
Fire Mage: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Mag ... e_Class%29
Tome Knight: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Knight,_ ... e_Class%29
Ghostwheel Marshal: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Marshal_%283.5e_Class%29

I still need:

-Some kinda arcaney arcane class (star mage?)
-A ranger variant (possibly just the core one, with favored enemy replacement?), that can at least do archery
-Some kinda defensive magicy class
-Some kind of nature magic class
-Anything else that'll fit

Somebody made a Curate class a while back that I think is in the repository. It's structured like a mix of the spherelock and monk, as it uses a combination of stance-styled blessings and protection-based spheres. All of my players have hated the white mage role, so I've never seen it played, but it doesn't seem terrible.

Possibly sometime this fall, not sure when, and it's only a maybe

Awesome, that is exactly when I expect to have time to play in another game.

Core Bard?

You'll have to rename it and maybe move away from having the inspiration schticks be music based. But, it is pretty much the best class for doing the Adventuring Archaeologist / Tomb Raider stuff. Probably okay with just some renaming and some minor tweaks.

-Some kinda arcaney arcane class (star mage?)

Uh..?
For non-preparation casters, you have
Warmage (complete arcane) - which is a bit lame and seems a bit inappropriate, but might be salvageable.
Shujenka (OA) - which has this whole elemental schtick that might or might not tie into Sharn's whole Air magic dealio well.

-A ranger variant (possibly just the core one, with favored enemy replacement?), that can at least do archery

Well the idea of a guy who gets to track out of the box and is extra suspicious against a particular type of citizen/criminal actually play really well into a psuedo-Discworld watch setting. I'm not sure favored enemy needs to go here, so much as to be re-purposed as a primarily investigative schtick focusing on the skill bonus side instead of the damage bonus.

But it might be more appropriate to offer Urban alternatives to Wild Empathy and Animal Companion.

-Some kinda defensive magicy class

Quantumboost's White Mage is a thought here:

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=127268

But that depends on how your players feel about playing healbots.

-Some kind of nature magic class

Koumei's Witch might work here.

-Anything else that'll fit

Frank's Soldier is raw awesome, and a pretty decent chassis for the guy who came back from the wars and joined the watch.

Uh..?
For non-preparation casters, you have
Warmage (complete arcane) - which is a bit lame and seems a bit inappropriate, but might be salvageable.
Shujenka (OA) - which has this whole elemental schtick that might or might not tie into Sharn's whole Air magic dealio well.

Basically someone who can fit the "Wizard" role without actually being a wizard. Those two will work well though, I think.

But it might be more appropriate to offer Urban alternatives to Wild Empathy and Animal Companion.

The companion will remain an option, I think. I could very well see a guy coming in from Eldeen, joining the guard, and taking his pet wolf with him.

Quantumboost's White Mage is a thought here:

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=127268

But that depends on how your players feel about playing healbots.

Yeah, I knew there were a couple, but didn't get a chance to read them all yet. I want to present it as an option, at the very least, even though I'm not big on the healbot role.

Frank's Soldier is raw awesome, and a pretty decent chassis for the guy who came back from the wars and joined the watch.

I was worried that the Soldier might be too good. I didn't want to quite reach Tome Samurai levels of asskicking. I'll have to review all of its lower-level options.

So, I think I'll add the Warmage to the list, but maybe throw in a few extra spells that can add in some versatility in situations where they can't throw fireballs (crowded streets).
Shujenja I also like, and will be allowing. I'm not sure if this needs any direct changes.
Quantum's White Mage -also in.


Soldier I think would just end up being way too strong compared to Marshal and Knight. Do you think I'm off-base, here?

DragonChild wrote: Soldier I think would just end up being way too strong compared to Marshal and Knight. Do you think I'm off-base, here?

I don't actually agree here - the Knight, maybe, but the Fighter? Hardly. The Soldier gets cool tricks, sure, but the fighter just ends up piling them up on top of each other over and over again. I think that the Soldier would probably be fine.

I don't actually agree here - the Knight, maybe, but the Fighter? Hardly. The Soldier gets cool tricks, sure, but the fighter just ends up piling them up on top of each other over and over again. I think that the Soldier would probably be fine.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "but the fighter?". My worry is Soldier vs Ghostwheel's Marshal, and Soldier vs Tome Knight, that the Soldier comes out way ahead.

Fuck - you're right. I need to lern 2 reeding comprehenshun.

Sorry about that - pretend that brain fart didn't happen. :S

Update. I am going with the following classes:


Core Rogue
Complete Divine Shugenja
ToB Warblade
ToB Crusader
Tome Assassin: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin ... e_Class%29
Tome Jester: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Jester_%283.5e_Class%29
Tome Knight: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Knight,_ ... e_Class%29
Ghostwheel Marshal: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Marshal_%283.5e_Class%29
Ghostwheel Sharpshooter http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Sharpsho ... e_Class%29
Quantumboost's White Mage: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/White_Ma ... e_Class%29

God, so behind, I wanted everything done by now. But it's not. Argh.

So, slight change. The Tome Assassin will use the DMG Assassin spell list (yet tome assassin caster progression), and not the bard's.

Races, I'm highly considering just using these: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Simplifi ... nt_Rule%29

As I like the style and have issues with the ability score penalties in most of the races applied to the guards. however, that might just be changing too damn much for no real reason. The races I want to be able to have are:

Human
Half-elf
Elf
Dwarf
Halfling
Gnome
Half-orc
Goblin
Shifter
Changeling
Warforged

Warforged, Shifters, Half-elves, and Half-orcs are definitely too weak, IMO. Gnomes need new stats so their bonuses actually make sense for the classes available. Changelings I personally feel are underpowered, but apparently a lot of people disagree with me. So bleh. But part of the changes I'm going to make are definately going to involve letting all half-orcs and shifters track by scent and identify smells.

I was going to recommend Half-Orcs as the Races of War version.

But now I see that this would not work.

And what about whole orcs?

DragonChild wrote:The Tome Assassin will use the DMG Assassin spell list (yet tome assassin caster progression), and not the bard's.

The Dungeonomicon assassin doesn't use the bard's spell list anyway.

DragonChild wrote:As I like the style and have issues with the ability score penalties in most of the races applied to the guards. however, that might just be changing too damn much for no real reason. The races I want to be able to have are:

Human
Half-elf
Elf
Dwarf
Halfling
Gnome
Half-orc
Goblin
Shifter
Changeling
Warforged

Warforged, Shifters, Half-elves, and Half-orcs are definitely too weak, IMO. Gnomes need new stats so their bonuses actually make sense for the classes available. Changelings I personally feel are underpowered, but apparently a lot of people disagree with me. So bleh. But part of the changes I'm going to make are definately going to involve letting all half-orcs and shifters track by scent and identify smells.

Forest gnomes are hardcore, and will make good rogues, shugenjas, assassins, jesters, knights, white mages, and possibly more. Just use forest gnomes, lesser svirfneblin, or whisper gnomes rather than the default.

Half elves could just always either be elf or human, but if you really need a race with both the human and elf subtypes without some bullshit feat, you could have human bonus feat + low light vision for human-y half-elves, or skill points, Dex/Con adjustments (but not Int/Str), low light vision, and skill bonuses for elf-y half-elves.

Half-orcs have been given a writeup in Races of War. I'd give the scent ability to full orcs only.

Warforged are pretty hardcore as it is. You could open up more class options by making the attribute adjustments a little less harsh, though.

The Dungeonomicon assassin doesn't use the bard's spell list anyway.

Uh... right. I can't read. I am retarded.

Half-orcs have been given a writeup in Races of War. I'd give the scent ability to full orcs only.

I don't want scent, so much as I want identification of odors. For example, a shifter/half-orc that has the Knowledge (Sharn) skill should be able to identify what part of the city mud comes from with a roll, or with Alchemy should be able to pin-point different scents. Yes, it's kinda a weird thing to put on two races and not just the skills, but I really like the flavor of it.

Warforged are pretty hardcore as it is. You could open up more class options by making the attribute adjustments a little less harsh, though.

I was thinking of removing one of their -2s. Not sure which. Maybe the one of their choice?

DragonChild wrote:

Warforged are pretty hardcore as it is. You could open up more class options by making the attribute adjustments a little less harsh, though.

I was thinking of removing one of their -2s. Not sure which. Maybe the one of their choice?

On second thought, I'd just change the composite plating from a penalty into a benefit. Drop the various armor feats and just let warforged strap on the appropriate plating type as an upgrade. If you use Tome ASF rules, that should take care of itself. The attribute adjustments are appropriate to the race and don't really damage their ability to perform in appropriate classes. If you are set on removing one, I'd go with wisdom.

It is a shame that you don't have a wizard-y class for them, but warforged will make superlative assassins. They'll also make good warblades and knights with the above change to composite plating.